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-   -   No. 3, This time from scratch. (http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45848)

weldor2005 04-22-2016 06:15 AM

No. 3, This time from scratch.
 
I'm going big or going home. Well not too big, but provided that in a few days nothing big happens that throws a wrench in my closing on a new home, I will have a fresh new canvas which to place a new shop.

I don't really want this to take all year and I for once actually have some customers waiting on a few items. I have decided that it will be 36x54 with a 16' wall until some dumb code or other item comes and tells me otherwise. I don't know much about grade work or concrete, but will have it paid done, maybe just a few pointers from the crowd here so I don't get screwed by some shifty contractor? Grannit most I've heard are really good in this neck of the woods.

One decision to make, there seems to be a lot of people placing poles on the slab and connecting to precast anchors in the pour? I guess I was naturally partial to setting poles in holes and then pouring?

Next decision, although it is a much larger cost, do I just go ahead with 6" over 4" of concrete? Only thing holding me back is cost on that one, but really understand the justification.

No insulation or water lines in this one, my plan is to segregate a 18x36 portion off and insulate and heat with wood stove some day. The rest is left cold. The heated portion will have an interior overhead door, and the main barn a large slider.


Providing this will work and a contractor is game this Menards barn is my thought.

Anyone care to take a stab at building labor cost and concrete for me?

I thought concrete at $110 yard would cost 36*54*.5 = 972 feet^3, then 972/27 = 36 Yards. 36*110 = $3960. This would be more for labor and rebar. Then I wonder how much labor should I expect for the rest of the erection and grade work?

Hopefully upon closing I will post pictures of the site and ask for the groups feed back.

Windy_Acres 04-22-2016 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldor2005 (Post 656173)
so I don't get screwed by some shifty contractor?

First off, congrats. I lost count of what shop number Im on. Seems just as I get one done, I end up moving.

Hire me as a project manager...:cool: I used to do that for a living. Im into best practices, not minimum code.

Id throw this out there, what ever you decide for electrical, double it, and put everything in steel. If you want to use romex, fine, use steel boxes, quad receptacles. Quality receptacles. Cant have enough power enough places.

Provide allot of images along the way, and we collectively should see any thing major going south, before its completed, and can still be rectified.

Windy_Acres 04-22-2016 07:48 AM

Rereading this couple things come to mind..

If you place the overhead door to the south, expect allot of heat in the summer. My doors will be facing north, which traditionally, is not done in this part of the country, when you can pick from 4 sides.

Windows provide opportunity of theft.

Buy the best overhead door your budget will allow.

Sliding doors suck ass.. for lots of reason, Id avoid them like the plague. Just my opinion. If they are free, Id avoid them. Yes, even for cold storage. Plan on snow coming in, rain, moist air hitting cold items ( aka rust ), its all bad, rodents, the wind, the hardware,...after you own them, you dont want them. Even farmers no longer put sliding doors on buildings ( Ive seen many retro-fitted ), even when they need a massively wide ( spelled expensive ) door on a building to get large equipment in and out.

One other thought if you heating your work area, air infiltration is your #1 insulating enemy. You can have R-50 walls but if the place is built so loose you can through a cat through the seams, the R-50 might as well be R-1.

As far as the posts, if code will allow, above grade gets you out of the rot problem, Ive watched that being repaired in the past. Albeit through the slab is probably more stable, until it quits working.

Id be sure to vapor seal, and insulate the slab,... thats a big deal, you cant go back and rememdy.

SmokinDodge 04-22-2016 08:28 AM

Cool Dave. If you put a slider door on it you will hate yourself for years to come. Y'all get much snow/ice there? Track doors and winter weather don't play well together.

Sent from my ipotato

Shade Tree Welder 04-22-2016 08:29 AM

I agree with all of Windy's points. Learned a few the hard way...

I will add, "DO NOT BURY THE FUCKING POSTS IN THE GROUND!!!"

There are several ways to avoid it. I put a cinderblock frost wall in the
ground in my pole barn. I spent a summer as a kid replacing poles in
a barn, you never want to do that, ever!!!

6" concrete with fiber and rebar, if you plan on living there long. Our
kind of toys are much heavier than a car or truck.

I suggest pipe and wire for electric and I am glad I surface mounted all of
mine as my shop evolved a lot over the last 20 years.

milomilo 04-22-2016 08:40 AM

Like STW says, surface mounted wire lends itself to modifications much easier. I like windows for natural light. More prone to theft, yes, but much nicer to work in. What you doing for lighting?

Windy_Acres 04-22-2016 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo (Post 656193)
Like STW says, surface mounted wire lends itself to modifications much easier. I like windows for natural light. More prone to theft, yes, but much nicer to work in. What you doing for lighting?

On Ron's and Chris's note, surface mount provides for uninterrupted insulation, and provides for post reconfiguration.

Im currently piping my entire shop, on the surface. First time for that, in the past Ive buried it in the wall. Id have piped the house on the surface, but I dont think the misses would dig that shit, but there is already allot that has needed to be modded, and I went REALLY LONG wiring this house, that is to say, Im shocked, that I didnt get it right.

RancherBill 04-22-2016 10:04 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Congrats.

Seeing this will be an unheated space, I'd put in some natural light. With no light it will be a cave and you'll need lights all the time.

weldor2005 04-22-2016 10:49 AM

Say I'm convinced on the overhead door thing, I can handle that additional cost I feel.

I've heard Fiber reinforced concrete can suck for working on it as you can get some nice slivers at times. Other than that I here great things about the strength of it.

All electrical will be in conduit and surface mounted, though I only suspect I will insulate a section of it anywise.

I like the idea of a plastic border on top for lighting but hate the thought of it yellowing, would be better off using lights all the time.

Lighting, not sure yet, but I think I want to monkey around with some LED eventually and since I will have a full side of the roof at a southern exposure trying to get some solar energy to run them. Long term I guess.

SmokinDodge 04-22-2016 11:39 AM

Windows are a security risk but very well worth it to me. Every one who has walked in my shop is amazed at the amount of light even on a cloudy day. I won't have a building without them. I used 6 and 9 lite windows and plan to make theft bars that line directly up with the lite panes so there won't have to be any ugly ghetto steel bars on the out side.

If a thief ever got smart they could break in any steel building with a drill and 5/16 driver in no time flat.

I'd recommend putting the pex tubing in the entire floor even if you don't plan to use it now. In twenty years you will be kicking your own ass. I have no experience with the fiber, never seen it in any of the shops I've worked in.

Before you pour dig down and place two 6" conduit elbows in the wall and run them just outside of the building 3' down for added or upgraded stuff later on. God how I wish I had done this already.

Spend the money now. I know it hurts but you only get one shot. Even if it means waiting 6 months on building.


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