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  #21  
Old 09-30-2016, 03:16 PM
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Yea, there's farm country around here (heck, I live off a street with a bunch of horse farms on it), but it's not like farm country anywhere else. Equipment finds like that (and anything industrial) doesn't exist around here and if someone has something they want 10x as much as it's worth anywhere else.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2016, 03:25 PM
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1- The broken compressor- that's the piston on the RH side behind the crank laying facing with the top towards the picture, you can see the bottom of the cylinder got hammered and a bit of broken rod

2-Huh, I wonder if this is going to be a problem?
I got to thinking when I picked up the old compressor AND motor and it was about 30#, and then carried over the 145# Kellogg and set it next to it...

3- I'm not sure that compressor pad is strong enough to hold anything bigger...

4- LOL, this looks kind of funny.
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Mark
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Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
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  #23  
Old 10-01-2016, 05:25 PM
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Ironman, I totally missed this post and just noticed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Rod, I'd agree with you at that rpm. I have never had a unit at less than 1000rpm
The quincy I have is 1200, the the triple one before it was 1400, and I have a huge Rand that is rated 98cfm output at 1100rpm.

But some of the larger single cylinder ones are down at 800 I am told.
Just looked up the Kellog and they said the pump needs 800 - 1000 rpm to generate the rated cfm, so I would run at 1000. just my way of thinking.

I found a manual here and the pump charts are worth a look. For this situation, 5hp limits the output to about half the max and between 700-800 rpm. I see a jackshaft in Mark's future.
I think this partially answers my question, you think 5hp will be limited to about 800rpm? Why? How did you do that math? Are you calculating off of the no load or some approximated loaded speed?

I was debating between 2 sets of pulleys and about to order but one would put me at 966rpm or 940rpm (no load, I was guessing in the mid/high 800's loaded) which now you have me wondering if that's ambitious for the motors I have available.

I REALLY don't want to run (or build) a jackshaft...
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Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
BFH
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  #24  
Old 10-01-2016, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback View Post
Ironman, I totally missed this post and just noticed it:



I think this partially answers my question, you think 5hp will be limited to about 800rpm? Why? How did you do that math? Are you calculating off of the no load or some approximated loaded speed?

..
If you look in the manual there are pump charts which have horsepower consumed at X rpm and expected output at said rpm.
I used that to figure your max rpm for 5 hp will be between 7-800rpm.
You can exceed the ratings on a motor for a short time and if it has a thermal overload button you are safe.
As most shop work is short periods of running followed by sometimes days of inactivity, you may not smoke it. But having a good supply of air leads to having more air tools.....and sooner or later a small sandblaster, then you're in the shit.

That's why I said "Goody" when I saw your unloader heads, because the motor killer is in starting.
You could use a D-2 governor off a truck...about 10 bucks and let the motor run continuously, and the D-2 will turn the compressor on and off by lifting the intake valves. Then it will probably work on the 900rpm range you are thinking of.
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  #25  
Old 10-01-2016, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
If you look in the manual there are pump charts which have horsepower consumed at X rpm and expected output at said rpm.
I used that to figure your max rpm for 5 hp will be between 7-800rpm
Um, woops... somehow I've looked up that compressor spec in 2 different places and never noticed the power chart.
(why don't we have an embarassed smiley???)

So possibly another stupid question, how do you convert motor power (as in how many amps/volts it's running on) to hp? I'm assuming that you're assuming some sort of loss?

(In a second I'm going to post a second lable that I found on the bottom of the HF motor )

Quote:
You could use a D-2 governor off a truck...about 10 bucks and let the motor run continuously, and the D-2 will turn the compressor on and off by lifting the intake valves. Then it will probably work on the 900rpm range you are thinking of.
Oh man, you Cannucks and your tech speak... I'll do some googling before I ask you what that means...
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Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
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  #26  
Old 10-01-2016, 07:22 PM
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THe motor killer on compressors is usualy the desire to get more pressure to operate tools better.
Starting is a 5-10 second event followed by a 3-5 minuet self cooling cycle.

As the pressure builds the horsepower demand rises and if the set pressure is high enough the motor will actually exceed its rated Hp during the final few seconds of the cycle. If you are using air at close to the pumps capacity the run time at max power is increased and the windings get quite hot perhaps too hot in the core of the motor where the cooling is poorest.
Repeat this cycle often enough and the winding insulation will fail usually in a shared slot with the start winding. When you tear the motor down what you see is burned start winding because they go on the next start cycle after the fatal run cycle cooks the insulation and allows a shorted turn to form in the start winding.
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  #27  
Old 10-01-2016, 07:23 PM
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FWIW, I found another label on the bottom of the HF motor... not thrilled about this, but this thing is enormously heavy, much heavier than the AO Smith motor.

The second pic is the second compressor tank I can use. I'm not excited about the upright but it does have a sturdier compressor mounting plate then the horizontal one (that tank was actually red and I painted it black, as far as I know no rust, the bottom drain is sitting removed and sitting open so nothing can build up in it, but otherwise it's an unknown to me, a friend of mine brought it over after some shop that he stopped at had the compressor motor catch fire on it)

Nice, for some reason the SF server turned one pic upside down and the other sideways
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Mark
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Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
BFH

Last edited by cutter; 10-01-2016 at 09:00 PM. Reason: rotate pictures
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  #28  
Old 10-01-2016, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback View Post
Um, woops... somehow I've looked up that compressor spec in 2 different places and never noticed the power chart.
(why don't we have an embarassed smiley???)
But we do.

This one.
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  #29  
Old 10-01-2016, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback View Post
FWIW, I found another label on the bottom of the HF motor... not thrilled about this, but this thing is enormously heavy, much heavier than the AO Smith motor.
The label says 15 amp. 3hp at 230 volts is 17 amps. Chinese electricity is more powerful, maybe?

Here is a picture and description of a D-2 air governor.
Basically, it shuts off the air to the unloader and the pump raises the tank pressure to the setting of the governor, and then it turns the air back on to the unloaders, until the tank air pressure drops, and repeats.
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  #30  
Old 10-01-2016, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
So possibly another stupid question, how do you convert motor power (as in how many amps/volts it's running on) to hp? I'm assuming that you're assuming some sort of loss?

Oh man, you Cannucks and your tech speak... I'll do some googling before I ask you what that means...
Terry can do tech speak better

So here's a chart to ponder over.
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Gerry
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