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  #21  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
I have never had rancid coolant, blasphemer!
Sorry...I thought that was one reason why you gave it up.
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  #22  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:53 AM
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Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is offline
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You can google, MQL or Minimum Quantity Lubrication, there is a ton of shit out there on it.

http://minimumquantitylubrication.com/?page_id=2

I see mostly Trico or Unist units in use in factory settings. They work and are reliable.

https://www.tricocorp.com/product-ca.../metalworking/
(I have the Lil-mister)

http://unist.com/mql-machining.html
(the video is full of half truths, it is more sales BS than value)

http://unist.com/solutions/machining-cutting.html

http://itwprofessionalbrands.com/dym...p?category=126
http://neardrymachining.com/applicators.htm
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  #23  
Old 05-10-2017, 12:07 PM
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Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
Sorry...I thought that was one reason why you gave it up.
No my anal retentive side, got tired of the mess, and messy it is...
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  #24  
Old 05-10-2017, 01:18 PM
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Enco-ish 7x12. 2gallon? tank. Fine-ish blade on medium speed gets used about once a month to cut smalls out of misc. smallish mild steel stock (1"-2" x 1/8"-3/16" max flats, box and channel). Water with a splash of Rustlick Powersaw set so it just barely wets the blade. I have a refactometer but never use it. Both saw and lube (in its container) are about 10 years old.

The Rustlick peeled the paint off the driptray when I first used it... but otherwise, I feel it extends blade life--at least 1000 cuts before it starts to wander. Deposits chips in a nice little pile just after the brush. I'm looking for square, decent cut quality requiring minimal sanding and adequate blade life and I get that with the water and lube. I think there is a Starrett blade on there now but it is time for a new one come to think of it.

PS: I've never noticed a rancid smell coming from the saw but maybe I need to put on deodorant...
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  #25  
Old 05-10-2017, 03:39 PM
JBFab JBFab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LW Hiway View Post
I'd appreciate your checking on what brand/numbers etc on this if possible.

While I may just be fucking stupid, the point was in my asking a question and not asking for a consensus on whether someone does or does not use coolant for cutting. Not having looked at the specifics of this water soluble oil I appreciate your pointing the fact out with color.

JbFab, I would appreciate your checking for, if possible, that info.

I do at times cut dry, but not as a rule.

My initial question still stands.
Just wandered out to the shop and took a look. Here is the information on the barrel:

Val Cool VP920 055U
Metalworking Fluid Concentrate

Walter Valenite
N22 W23855 RidgeView Parkway West
Waukesha, WI 53188



A quick google search shows it available in 5 gallon quantities from Fastenal for what I would call a reasonable price.
https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/3122838
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2017, 04:05 PM
JBFab JBFab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
It is spelled Haas. VF-2? or bigger?

What coolant are you running? What concentration and is someone using a
refractometer to control concentration? or are they just adding a X% all the
time and not accounting for evaporation. Does the film wash off with water?

Production shops benefit from coolant and the machine you run are generally
better designed for coolant. Most of the hobby machines are not. I remember
a shop, that had a dozen or so Bridgeports all in a line there were troughs in
the floor that ran along the front and in back of the machines when they ran
coolant they just let the mess run to the floor and drain to a tank to be filtered
and run back. The place was a mess. He ran the cheapest coolant he could
find it also smelled like a cess pool. Typical Polish machine shop. They still
ran brazed carbide tooling and sharpened by hand. Always wondered if they
are still in business...

You might want to get some solid lubricant sticks, I have a stick of Castrol 140
stick wax, I snagged them when I left Castrol back in the 1990's, I have used
a little more than half the tube in 20 years. Also air tool oil is not a bad
cutting oil, general they have some tackifier that helps keep it on the tool.
Haas - I knew I was fucking it up last night, I was tired give me a break, lol. Definitely bigger than a VF-2.

I couldn't tell you a ratio. I am certain they don't use a refractometer, pretty sure we don't have one in the building. The ratio is something like this: "Just put x number of pumps out of the barrel in the 5 gallon jug and fill it up with water".

Now that I've confessed those sins . . . DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!

The film does wash off with water or mixed coolant when the machine is turned on the next time.
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  #27  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:14 PM
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Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LW Hiway View Post
I've not looked at the labeling on my empty gallon container of said oil, but
I'm wondering if this water soluble cutting oil would work with Kerosene.
To paraphrase..

Jef says, "I don't know what I have for water soluble cutting oil but will it work
when I mix it with something other than water?"

Ron answers, "Fuck, got me... but it doesn't seem to bright an idea."

Seriously, people are using "coolant, soluble oil, cutting oil, metalworking fluid, etc." interchangeably. Mainly because most people who use them don't know the difference. And no, I am not typing that much to try to explain it
mainly because I hate typing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LW Hiway View Post
I'd appreciate your checking on what brand/numbers etc on this if possible.

While I may just be fucking stupid, the point was in my asking a question and
not asking for a consensus on whether someone does or does not use coolant
for cutting. Not having looked at the specifics of this water soluble oil I
appreciate your pointing the fact out with color.

My initial question still stands.
The Valcool VP 920 is a synthetic and would not mix with kerosene.
Jason, let me know when the tool holders start sticking in the spindle
and/or tool holder...

Jef,

You have a few options.

1. Look at a MQL system, in my opinion if you really want to use lube in your
cutting, that will be your best option.

2. If you want to cut something with kerosene, DO NOT USE a water soluble
cutting fluid. Find a good thread cutting oil and cut it with kerosene. If you
cut aluminum or any copper or copper alloys, get a non-staining thread
cutting oil, if all you cut are steel and iron, then a staining thread cutting oil
will do you fine and will likely give you better tool life.

The "staining" term refers to the staining of copper and copper alloys.

Good luck,
Tell us what you decide and how it works for you.
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  #28  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:17 PM
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Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is offline
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Valcool VP-920

http://www.walter-tools.com/SiteColl...20-2012-en.pdf

It is ~70% water, as an estimate. Only good for ferrous machining.
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  #29  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:45 PM
JBFab JBFab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
Seriously, people are using "coolant, soluble oil, cutting oil, metalworking fluid, etc." interchangeably. Mainly because most people who use them don't know the difference. And no, I am not typing that much to try to explain it
mainly because I hate typing.
You are right I am completely ignorant to this. I would guess most of the rest of the population is as well.

A good friend of mine shared a quote with me: "There's nothing wrong with being ignorant as long as you don't let it turn into stupidity." To better explain it: I couldn't begin to discuss the how to improve the geometry of the blades on a large turbine. - I'm ignorant, I'm not stupid because I don't need to know. If I couldn't​explain how to adjust the settings on a welder to improve it's performance, or how to calculate a blank size for forming plate - that would make me stupid, I NEED to know - it's my livelyhood.

Now, I am interested in the subject. I DO listen to what you say, I regard you as an expert on the subject and appreciate you sharing information for me to absorb. I have no desire to go through several years of college to learn more. It just isn't that important to me. I am however grateful that there are professionals like you out there to figure this shit out for the rest of us. I'm pretty damn happy I don't have to keep a warm cup of lard around to lubricate my shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
The Valcool VP 920 is a synthetic and would not mix with kerosene.
Jason, let me know when the tool holders start sticking in the spindle
and/or tool holder...
Hasn't happened in 10 years, but I'll keep my ear open so you can have an "I told you so moment" some day.

BTW, aren't you one of the 50/50 mix of acetone/tranny fluid for penetrating oil guys? If so, WTF! How could it possibly be better than concoctions that have been specifically formulated for the task?
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:29 AM
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Stay away from amine base . They may separate good on tramp oils but the rust issues are a big B .We used it on rolling Al.
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