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  #61  
Old 10-06-2017, 10:45 PM
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terry lingle terry lingle is offline
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The rewinders I worked with would weigh the old coil cut it in two with a bandsaw count the turns and measure the diameter then they would burn the insulation and varnish away and weigh the remaining copper. they knew how many turns were on the coil and exactly how many feet of wire were in the coil.
Some coils are much more complex involving multiple sections and different sized windings but they had the basic data and a functional schematic before they took the old coil apart for final wire details.

I would just look for motor rewinders as motors and generators internally very similar. A few phone calls and you will know which rewinder is the best fit for your repair.
There is nothing special about a welder once you get to the point of a custom repair rather than an off the shelf part.
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  #62  
Old 10-07-2017, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toprecycler View Post
I think I remember Ironman talking about rewinding electric motors when he was a kid. If he could do it then, you should be able to today. Nice thing about the internet and this forum, there is a lot of experience to draw from, and we usually like to share knowledge. After all, it’s not like we are teaching the guy next door all our secrets so he can go into business in direct competition against us and affect us where it hurts in the pocketbook. It is a good thing to keep this knowledge alive and growing.


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The motors I re-wound were the much more complex interlaced windings as you commonly see in every motor today.

That's a no brainer coil to rewind. When making the coil form, you can put in a slight curve as the original if you are a fancy woodworker, or just a plain jane straight one.
Make a wooden form with the center core block at width of the coil, add cheek plate sides, count the coil turns and wind it with the same turns and same gauge wire. When done and ready, and tightly tied with string every inch, if you need a slight curve in it to match the housing, you can use an arbor press to put the curve in. Then soak it in Glyptal 1201 paint, and after curing, wrap it in a good cloth type insulating tape.

I made welder transformer coils the same way.
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  #63  
Old 10-07-2017, 08:18 AM
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Coils like that can, and have been wound on a lathe with a trip counter for the # of turns. Personally, I would not be that brave but rewinders are.
It is important to lay the wire turns side by side, not in an overlapping tangle, air gaps created mean a larger coil, and loss of efficiency.

Glyptal info http://glyptal.com/1201tech001.pdf

Edit: example of winding this type of coil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xd3N3M2Y9o
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Last edited by Ironman; 10-07-2017 at 08:57 AM.
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  #64  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:51 PM
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I am waiting on the next installment in this serial thread. I keep my mouth shut because I truly have zero to contribute from a knowledge/troubleshooting aspect. Large chunks are over my head I hope to absorb bits and pieces on the way to knowing perhaps one half of what GWIZ and Terry Lingle forgot. So maybe at some point I may have half a clue. Just my 2 cents
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  #65  
Old 10-09-2017, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normanby View Post
GWIZ, I have scanned the information from Lincoln Australia and saved as jpg pictures which I will attach to this post. I hope you will be able to see some useful information in them.
The first picture I see.

125 volts.

600 Turns.
2.5 lbs.

Their wire code #19 HVY E1949
assuming #19 gauge magnetic wire (that can be confirmed by measuring the wire)
==

Second picture.
Just the inside dimensions (Noting before Bow)
==

Third picture, not much there.
==

Forth picture, not much there.
==
Fifth picture, Looks like Lincolns wire data code.

Class H Film (180° c) coated copper Magnet wire. Heavy. PET2
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  #66  
Old 10-09-2017, 12:56 PM
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Copper wire.
Assuming 19 gauge.
.0395 diameter = 0.911mm

1000ft resistance = 8.046 ohms
256' feet per pound
3.90lb @ 1000" ft
==

Magnetic copper wire.
Heavy Build (coating)
19 gauge
0.0387 diameter
feet per pound = 250.6'

3.99lb @ 1000" ft
0.00399' lb's per foot.

2.5lb ÷ 0.00399= 626.566 ft.

1000ft resistance = 8.046 ohms
0.00804 ohms ft.

626.566 feet x 0.008046 = 5.041 ohms.

https://www.coonerwire.com/magnet-wire/
=====================

used the info from post # 65

Assumed 19 gauge.
2.5 lb's.
heavy coating.

(one coil)
2.5 lb's.
626.56 feet of wire.
5.041 ohms.

** that said and assuming the info is correct within reason ***
coil "one" should have measured 5 ohms, that confirms what I read in a SAE welder manual.
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Last edited by GWIZ; 10-09-2017 at 01:03 PM.
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  #67  
Old 10-11-2017, 04:13 PM
Normanby Normanby is offline
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Was not able to get much information until after last weekend. Since then I have made inquiries re information from repairers about rewinding and and other information. I have talked to an employee at a repair place for welders & generators who also do rewiring on site. This person was familiar with this 400 AS Lincoln welder and they have serviced quite a few over the years and also have some smaller parts available. I have contacted other places about rewinding the coils but did not get positive replies, and I don't have the time or confidence to try it myself so I have agreed to the rewind quote for A$495. I was also given advise on dismantling the reactor which I have done and removed and measured the contact points on the spring loaded fingers. The contact points are industrial silver soldered to the brass fingers and have a lot of use left according to the measurements I was given.
I also searched to find any of these welders that I could buy cheaply to use for parts but located about 5 or 6 in going condition in various areas of Australia with prices from A$ 3,250 to $6,000. As this welder weighs about 800 Kgs (1800 lbs) which would affect transport costs I decided to get the coils rewound and do any other required repairs while it was apart.
I appreciate all the advice given and interest shown and I will update as more progress happens. Also will take some more photos and post these too.
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  #68  
Old 10-22-2017, 02:44 PM
Normanby Normanby is offline
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Default Another update

Not a lot of progress so far but the coil has been rewound. Was not able to have insulation baked until late last week. Should be sent to me early this week. As I will be away from home now for a few days I hope it is here when I return. Will post more updates when reassembly begins.
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  #69  
Old 11-07-2017, 05:14 AM
Normanby Normanby is offline
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Default Update Welder Runs!

A little while since my last update as the rewound coil was delivered last week but today was the first chance I had to work on the machine. Fitted the coils, carried out some maintenance on the welding amps reactor, assembled all the bits and connected all the wiring. Also flashed the exciter per the instructions in the Lincoln manual. Turned over a few times with the starter motor to check all was free then started the engine. All looked ok and voltage good at welding connectors and at 240V ac outlets, plugged in a couple of power tools and they operated well. Slight sparking at exciter brushes which should improve after some use, no sparking at any other brushes.
Time to try some welding so I had some one on standby to shut it down if any problems noticed while welding. I used two 1/8" rods down hand set at 130 Amps and all went well. Not a big test but seems it should be all right. Will attach a few photos taken while running then tomorrow will replace all the covers I removed to work on the welder.
Thanks for all the interest and advice offered which was very helpful. I learned quite a bit about fault tracing on old engine welders so if I ever think about buying another one I know what things to inspect first.
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  #70  
Old 11-07-2017, 05:58 AM
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Glad it is working again. Great job on seeing it through to the end.


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