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  #11  
Old 08-12-2017, 12:31 AM
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arizonian arizonian is offline
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There is always another perspective.

Quit taking on jobs with such a short lead time. Under promise and over deliver.

Quality control. Who checks the fitters before the piece gets to final welding? Add another step with a green ribbon signifying the dimensional check has been completed. I've got a story that got a guy demoted, but I won't go into that here.

Document control. Nothing goes to the floor on white paper. Use canary yellow or blue to signify that the drawings have been checked, the customer has approved, and engineering has bought into the calcs. The project manager has the responsibility to yank old drawings off the floor when a revision comes out. And the drawing are signed in wet ink by the person ultimately responsible.

To be competitive, you can't bid too high. To be successful, you can't bid too low. Only you know where that fine line is. Try moving the line to see what happens.

Train your employees. If it means being late on a few projects, it means being late on a few projects.

The company I work for has several CWI, an ISO 9001 program and our own welding school. You don't strike an arc on a code project until you pass our test. Once the test is passed, there is a raise for that employee. The practice, the bookwork and the tests are done after hours. We also have a class for press brake operators. Same thing applies, just differently.

The detailers must state on our drawings the bend radius and K-factor or bend allowance so the operator can determine what went wrong when the part doesn't come out right. We also cut extra parts or sample parts for setup. A change in tooling may be all that is needed to make it right.

Do you layout and cut by hand or do you have laser or plasma capabilities?

Is the brake CNC downstroke and backstop or manual.





What exactly do you produce?
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Last edited by arizonian; 08-12-2017 at 12:38 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:14 AM
Samcord Samcord is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisarenee2 View Post
All most employees think is how the owner lives off the sweat of the poor, downtrodden employees and goes home and night and rolls naked in the piles of money we make off of them.

I surely would not work for someone that had that opinion of me. What is your role in the business? Sounds like you have bigger problems than filling this single position.
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  #13  
Old 08-12-2017, 07:21 AM
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Lisa,
Your business sounds almost exactly like the one I worked at a couple years ago. Started by mom and pop 60 years ago, thru good times and bad. Grew the business and had about 15 employees when I hired on. Probably 1/2 had family ties to each other in three separate families.

Son and daughter was running the business now, but mom and dad would stop in occasionally.

It was a decent place to work. A friend got me the job, and I was happy. They didn't pay the best at first, but was the norm for our area. But they did try to do good. I seen things starting to slow down, and volunteered to cut my hours, since I had other side work that could fill in. They agreed to that and cut me back and still paid for my health insurance which was nice.

It wasn't enough though for them though. About 2 months later, about 2 of the last 3 hires was cut down to one day a week, allowing us to draw unemployment for the rest of the week, and they still kept our insurance paid up. Unfortunately, I learned that my unemployment would go back against my previous employer and I went to him and said I would work back in his shop to fill in around new employer schedules and avoid unemployment altogether, but pride held him back from that, for a couple of months anyways. He finally called, so I started working both jobs. Nice thing was, I had asked for extra $ since he would not be paying insurance for me, and I had a nice raise coming back.

About 2 months later, I made the decision to stay on permanently. I had to decide between two jobs since I had another offer on the table too, but chose my old boss. Why? I guess I knew what to expect there. But I put up with a lot of BS too. I understand when you say you can see things from both sides of the line. I have never been the owner of a bigger business, so I don't know all the stresses, but think I can understand them. I had originally talked with my boss when hiring on the first time about maybe taking the business over when he wants to retire, (he is third generation family business too, with no family of his own to follow in his footsteps) but after working there 16 years now, don't really have that desire now. Because of dealing with employees or trying to find good ones that is.

All I hear is how bad employees are, how we do not treat tools right, take too long to do a job, sick too much, etc etc. I very seldom hear a "good job" or "Thanks for staying until 10:00pm last night to get that job out" or anything else positive. Morale in my work environment is down in the dumps constantly. (It does not help that the roof leaks so bad it is just considering a sun shade in half the building creating a dungeon type environment. But new roof costs too much, and will be the next owners problem I hear)

Long story short, you need to find ways to keep your employees happy. Especially the good ones. I don't know what your work environment is like there, but I bet there is some grumbling going on that you do not know about. Always is. Probably not all founded correctly, but are you aware of that?

In order to have a successful business, you need to have the right people on the ship, and sometimes get the wrong people off. You tried to keep someone just to keep a warm body around, and I bet that took some workers morale down. I hope you have good communication with the employees you do have, and they know you really appreciate them. They can be your best resource for finding others. But, if deep down they are not happy, will they really recommend someone to work there?

I will add more later. I have to go to work now.


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  #14  
Old 08-12-2017, 08:40 AM
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I didn't find your ad, but it sounds like you don't give rock solid details, like what the pay range is.
When I was looking for work, I generally skipped over any ads that didn't give me all the details.
Looking for a job is a frustrating experience, I had headhunters call me for interviews and when I got there they told me it wasn't for the job I applied to, it was so they could look for jobs for me to apply to.
I had companies that claimed health insurance as a "benefit" and when you put them on the spot they weren't contributing a dime, but you could buy a plan on their "group rate" that cost more than your private insurance you already carry.
I have missed work on more than one occasion for a job interview that was a complete waste of time, as it wasn't a job I would take when I got there and got the details.
You are ideally looking for someone who is or has been working successfully as a brake operator, with the experience you need. People like that already have jobs. Even if they are on unemployment, people like that usually find things to do. If you want to entice them to leave what they are doing and come work for you, you need to put a package together that is good incentive to do so, and you need to make it crystal clear in the ad so that they don't feel like they are on a witch hunt.
When the interview comes, act like you are excited to meet them. I have dealt with some large companies who basically treated it like it was my privilege to come in for an interview. You are already at work making money when you interview a prospect, you aren't out anything. The prospect is the one who is taking time out of their day, possibly missing work, getting dressed up, and traveling to your location for something that may not lead to anything. I know that it is very frustrating on both sides, and that you have a lot of other things to do besides interviews, but the prospect is taking a risk as well and if you don't appreciate that you don't make a good first impression.
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  #15  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:38 AM
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Lisarenee2,
Thanks for clarifying some things, I think people jumped to some wrong conclusions and assumed the issue was you.
It still may be an error on management's part, but it sounds like you have had terrible luck. I would never tolerate drinking on the job.
When I need another employee I ask my good employee to recommend someone as good people hang together and so do bad ones. I would like to help but I don't know if you have tried this or not. I would suggest, as you have had so little luck, to bite the bullet and train someone, even from scratch. It cannot be worse than what has happened so far.
My second suggestion is to hire out of state or out of country. A clear package of benefits and raises as markers are met, and meetings to discuss progress with a person would be needed here.
But I would not hire a relative, that ends up a poisonous situation.

I have a neighbor, a large farmer, who has tried for years to get workers, and the locals are just machine busters(I do his repairs) He finally advertised in the Ukraine and has two brothers who are very good. He pays $25, and finally has someone worth the money. He provided housing for the first year and brought one guys wife out for him as well.

You are against the wall, you cannot grow the company when you can hardly get enough workers as it is. I would also suggest joining Linkedin and posting your company profile and such there. I just checked and there are 1901 press brake operators listed on there. What are the odds that one of them is looking for a change? I am on there, but tend to ignore a lot of the communications. I have had people contact me for work through linkedin many times.
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2017, 03:29 PM
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Ironman has some good points. It seems in today's world, if there is a good worker willing to work, he already has a job and is not necessarily looking thru the want ads. So the question is, how do you find qualified workers that want to leave their current job and come work for you. What do you offer different than what they already have. It has always seemed that when I have changed jobs in the past, that is when I would get a substantial raise, but it isn't always about the $. But usually the $ is what usually attracts attention in the first place.

The suggestion for asking for leads from your current employees is a good one, as long your current employees are happy enough to recommend someone. I know in my own job right now, I would be hard pressed to recommend someone to come work with me, especially if I am friends with them. It's not that I really hate my boss, but I don't always see his point of view, and I don't really think this job has much more than 5 years left, but it could be over in an instant if something should happen to my boss, since he "is the magic that makes everything happen" and has a hard time delegating work out. I just have to remember that it is his business to run as he wants, and as long as I want to collect a paycheck from him, I have to do things the way he wants.

So why do I continue to stay where I am at? I do like what I do. My last kid is starting high school this year. By the time he graduates, I should have my mortgage paid off, and at that time, I will probably be in the looking zone again. But until then, I am comfortable where I am at, but I can feel my patience wearing thinner as time wears on. Plus, I do have three weeks vacation yearly now, do that does come into play, even though that only equates to about less than $1 an hour for the hours I normally work. But I will say, the constant 50+hours is starting to wear me down too.

So one question for you, how do your current employees feel about working for you? What is keeping them from wanting to leave?

You will need to find a way to keep them involved in the business, that allows them that they feel like they are an important part of the business, and just not another tool that can be replaced easily. What incentives can you motivate them with?


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  #17  
Old 08-12-2017, 06:36 PM
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One thing that needs to be considered is the benefit package that goes along with the wages. How's your health insurance package, compared to other like businesses? How about Vacation and sick pay? Do they compare? I know most folks look at the wage/hr and seldom figure the bennies in. In my municipal job, I figure the health insurance is worth an addition al $3/hr, then there's sick time and vacation, so I add $4/hr to what I actually earn each hour. See if you can't offer a better insurance package than your competitors.
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:41 PM
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I never got any sick time or vacation pay or holiday pay but I got great health care and retirement
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Old 08-12-2017, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisarenee2 View Post
Well, I tried to take things said as constructive. However, I now feel I need to clarify a few things.

Firstly, as for my mom, she owns the company. My dad started it with her all those years ago. He died 7 years ago. It crushed her, as it did all of us. She is the owner now, but she is so soft spoken and worried about hurting feelings, she gets walked on constantly by employees. She remains doing the bookeeping and office work as she always has. My husband, who started sweeping floors there over 20 years ago, now is running the entire business. He is an amazing man, as was my dad and they expect the best from the employees.

The other press brake operators? We do have one and an amazing one, but we need one more. He can not do it all. And my husband who mastered the brake years and years ago is still doing that, and alllll the other stuff too. But again, we need more help. I can remember 4 different ones since I have been there. The first one would not show up at least once a week. We put up with it for 2 years. Finally he was caught drinking in the parking lot next door during lunch and we finally fired him. The second, again never showed up. He was good, but drank so we let him go. Then unable to find anyone else, we hired him back after he swore he was better. He was not. Fired him finally again. The other was a family member who moved to another state. The last said he knew how to run this brake, but didn't. He cost us so much in material that we had to re-do, but begged him to stay because of the hard time we have to find another. He in turn begged us to fire him. We didn't. He said he wouldn't return and so we said if you don't want to return, we can't keep you. Four days after he didn't come to work, we received unemployment papers stating he was laid off. We contested, but he got it anyway. Lovely.

As for a living wage, that is an assumption that we are not. It is the constant lament of employees who have absolutely no idea what it entails to be an OWNER. I have been on both sides of the fence and believe I can walk that fine line of seeing both sides of the coin as far as the employer/employee relationship. But unless it has been YOUR money, time, heart, soul invested in a business, you have a skewed view of what it means.

All most employees think is how the owner lives off the sweat of the poor, downtrodden employees and goes home and night and rolls naked in the piles of money we make off of them. That's the fantasy. The REAL picture is the owner sitting up wondering what to tell the customer when the order is late AGAIN because the welder didn't read the drawings correctly and welded things upside down. Or the parts were shipped to the wrong place. Or things were scratched. Worried sick about deadlines and costs and material that has been wasted. And jobs that have to be done more than once because many employees are there for their time and once the 5 o'clock whistle blows, so do they. Don't dare question being on their cell phone over and over. Don't have the nerve to write them up when they don't show up for work (amazing how many people are ill on MONDAY). They grumble and whine about being asked to do something extra, like clean the restroom. "Why me??". And one more thing...yes, our company is successful. And my parents made a good living off it. Should they feel guilty for that? Every person in this country has the right to start a business as they did. They had to put their home up for collateral to buy the machinery they got in the beginning. My parents went without a check for 2 years, my mom actually for 3. When there was not enough money to pay for material or whatever, they paid for them out of their pocket. They saved their money for years in order to have enough to do what was necessary to start the company and survive. And survive they did. And thrive.

If you are hard working, CARE about your job and the company you work for, you will be duly rewarded. If you are there to clock in and out and don't give a crap about the company you work for, then you won't. I am proud of our company and how we treat our people.

I assume I won't hear anything now about the help I was requesting, but to those who were trying to help, I truly appreciate it.
What comment rubbed you wrong?
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  #20  
Old 08-12-2017, 10:04 PM
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EXPERIENCED Cincinnati Press Brake Operator hide this posting
(google map)

compensation: Depends on experience
employment type: full-time
Weld Engineering & Fabrication is a sheet metal fabrication shop that has been in business for 30 years in Santa Fe Springs, CA. Our business has a broad spectrum of customers that calls for us to do repeat orders as well as prototypes and everything in between. We are currently seeking a proficient press brake operator with sheet metal experience for immediate hire.

Must have extensive experience & knowledge of:

*Cincinnati brand 60CBII x 4 FT. Press Brake.

*The ability to read complex drawings and interpret them correctly.

*Create set ups correctly.

*Various shop machinery including but not limited to grinding, polishing, drill press, shear, laser, rolling and forming parts.

*Familiar with various forms of measurements, bend allowances, metal thickness & types of steel.

*Follow safety rules & regulations conscientiously.

*Have the ability to work independently with minimal supervision.

The prevailing candidate will have a exemplary work ethic and dedication to providing the services required to satisfy our customers expectations. We are often under tight deadlines and the successful candidate will be able to complete jobs in the timeframe needed and be flexible to handle any changes that may be required by the customer to satisfy their needs.

Overtime is required periodically depending on work load and deadlines. Bilingual is a plus. Regular business hours are from 7:00 a.m to 3:30 p.m. Insurance available after 60 days. One week vacation available after 1 year of employment. Two weeks after 3 years of employment. SRA accounts are also offered
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
do NOT contact us with unsolicited services or offers
post id: 6255887245 posted: 2017-08-08 2:59pm updated: 2017-08-08 2:59pm email to friend best of [?]

I believe this is the ad in CL.


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