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  #11  
Old 09-27-2016, 09:14 AM
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Jen, have you tried baking hydrous borax, pour a box of your borax in a baking dish and heat it to 500 degrees in your oven for 2.5 hrs.

It forms a lump that can be smashed up in a plastic bag.

I could never get anything but the mule team borax, but I mixed it with boric acid powder, because it melts faster, and seems to help to get the borax melted sooner and gives an instant barrier to scale forming, the curse of forge welding.
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  #12  
Old 09-27-2016, 09:28 AM
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Get an old blender at Goodwill or a yard sale. Just grind and sift a bit at a time when you need it.

Will it blend?

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  #13  
Old 09-27-2016, 08:04 PM
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all great ideas..

Dubb's :So the reason I was looking at the coffee grinder is hand operation not the electric ones..

I was looking for something with little investment either in time, resources or money.. I mean up to about 100.00 is worth it if it saves gobs of time..

With the right unit I think it could be done in a 30minute time frame..

Not sure about the ball mills as I don't have enough experience and from what I can figure you need some sort of screening if you want to get a consistent size.. I don't like my flux super fine.. I like it so when you drop it is doesn't blow away in the wind..


Today I finished the batch.. It took 2 full tins of the hydrous borax to make what you see in the tin..

Gerry, I did read somewhere years ago that boric acid was one of the ingredients in one of the commercially produced fluxes..


I'm a little perplexed as it takes more than 500F to get the borax to melt so getting to the anhydrous part not sure about..

At that temperature it would end up being a giant powder puff ball..

Have you done it? What were the results?

You can see how dark the stuff I made is and the commercial stuff I have seen is the same color..

took about 1.5hrs to crush up all the crystal.. But now I will have enough for a few years..

Here are the pictures..

The flux just about finished.. I will have to shake it one more time to get all the larger pieced to the top but for use now it would be fine..

The other picture is of the tube I use to refine it all..

I also use a series of punches and even a rock drill but find a square punch is good for larger peices and then I use the tool I made that has a small end and an end the same diameter of the pipe to crush up the smaller stuff..
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  #14  
Old 09-29-2016, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allessence View Post
all great ideas.. Dubb's :So the reason I was looking at the coffee grinder is hand operation not the electric ones.. I was looking for something with little investment either in time, resources or money.. I mean up to about 100.00 is worth it if it saves gobs of time.. With the right unit I think it could be done in a 30minute time frame.. Not sure about the ball mills as I don't have enough experience and from what I can figure you need some sort of screening if you want to get a consistent size.. I don't like my flux super fine.. I like it so when you drop it is doesn't blow away in the wind.. Today I finished the batch.. It took 2 full tins of the hydrous borax to make what you see in the tin.. Gerry, I did read somewhere years ago that boric acid was one of the ingredients in one of the commercially produced fluxes.. I'm a little perplexed as it takes more than 500F to get the borax to melt so getting to the anhydrous part not sure about.. At that temperature it would end up being a giant powder puff ball.. Have you done it? What were the results? You can see how dark the stuff I made is and the commercial stuff I have seen is the same color.. took about 1.5hrs to crush up all the crystal.. But now I will have enough for a few years.. Here are the pictures.. The flux just about finished.. I will have to shake it one more time to get all the larger pieced to the top but for use now it would be fine.. The other picture is of the tube I use to refine it all.. I also use a series of punches and even a rock drill but find a square punch is good for larger peices and then I use the tool I made that has a small end and an end the same diameter of the pipe to crush up the smaller stuff..
Jenn,
No offense meant here, the borax goes a long way like you said. I can't understand why you would want to spend your time and up to $100 in equipment to make anhydrous borax when it is so cheap. I can buy 5lbs of Anhydrous Borax from $15 - $25 per five pounds. That's $3-$5 per lb. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
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Jenn,
No offense meant here, the borax goes a long way like you said. I can't understand why you would want to spend your time and up to $100 in equipment to make anhydrous borax when it is so cheap. I can buy 5lbs of Anhydrous Borax from $15 - $25 per five pounds. That's $3-$5 per lb. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
Nick

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Because I'm not to bright..

Really it's because I hate to throw anything away.. I've never been happy with the hydrous borax and back when I had no money (not that I have a lot now) it was a way to get what I wanted..

I have time and it's actually enjoyable making stuff myself as you know.. time hanging out at the forge, and beating the chunks into power..

Besides that.. There are not a lot of nuts out there doing this kind of thing..

It works great and now for the 3 hrs or 3.5 hrs spent I'll have enough for 3 or 4 years...

The remaining 50lbs of the hydrous borax will be backup..
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2016, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
Jen, have you tried baking hydrous borax, pour a box of your borax in a baking dish and heat it to 500 degrees in your oven for 2.5 hrs.

It forms a lump that can be smashed up in a plastic bag.

I could never get anything but the mule team borax, but I mixed it with boric acid powder, because it melts faster, and seems to help to get the borax melted sooner and gives an instant barrier to scale forming, the curse of forge welding.
Gerry did you ever try this method of heating it? Did it work?

The anhydrous borax I made melts at a low temp and coats excellently with very, very little flux.. It makes a thick coating and you can see clean shiny metal under the coating.. Pretty neat...

You can see how cold the piece was when coated in the second picture..
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Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

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My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

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Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2016, 05:29 PM
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Damn!! Disappointed again!! I thought that Jenn had the 20 mule team at her house, all she has is some Borox, <sigh>
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2016, 06:02 PM
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Jen,

Wow, you are just making your life really hard. You just have to lay it out on
a cookie sheet, thin layers, in the oven at 300-350F for a few hours to drive
off the water of hydration. Then store in a good air tight container.

Borax dust is a health hazard so be careful with it and do not inhale.
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Last edited by Shade Tree Welder; 10-02-2016 at 07:53 AM.
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2016, 06:03 PM
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Borax (anhydrous) melts at 743°C
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2016, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shade Tree Welder View Post
Borax (anhydrous) melts at 743°C
HUM.. I have seen that different types melt at different temps.. Spent some time online going over the different varieties from chem houses..


i'll have to pick up a temp gun that goes that high and since I'm not good with C to F conversions I;ll have to see at what temperature this actually melts at..

Does the white powder stay white when you drive off the moisture????????? I would assume yes, as it never melts..

As you can see the stuff I made is gray in color.. it is a dark green when in lump form..

The metal under the melted borax getting really clean as the stuff is boiling in the pan..

I have found that even after years of being in a bread pan at the side of the forge it still doesn't bubble up.. I've even had the pan get filled with water and I just dump the water out and put the pan next to the edge of the forge to dry the mix and it works just like it's supposed to with no puffing up or acting any different.. ??????????????????????????????????????????

Shade I have a package for you also.. Just need to send it..
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If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
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