Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Shop & Safety

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-31-2017, 10:45 PM
dubby's Avatar
dubby dubby is online now
Director: Fish Seduction
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 9,096
Default HF 20T Press bleed off problem

Set my press to make a couple holsters today and had an issue with the HF press. It's a couple years old and has always seemed to have a leak somewhere, so I'm hoping the issue is I'm just running low on fluid.

Anyhow, the problem: Pressed it down to hold my mold in place. Waited about 15 minutes and went back to check it. Usually it's just the same as I left it. On the 4 presses I did today, each time by the time I came back it had released. It still had a little pressure, enough to hold everything in place, but far from the max number of pumps I put on it. When I turned the release screw, the ram slowly retracted about normal.

The fix? Dunno. I'm going to pull it apart and check the fluid level (if I remember how) tomorrow. If a shot of fluid doesn't fix it, what then?

New ram? Is there a seal kit? Never have understood why it leaks in the first place. It's not enough to leave a puddle, but enough that I have to wipe the thing off every month.

How does the air/hydraulic replacement unit work? What kind of down speed are we talking about? I've considered it, but have always been afraid that because of the nature of the pieces I do (firearms) it may be a bit aggressive.


Chime in below with you hints, tips, tricks please. I'll have to figure this out tomorrow and get a solution in place by about 3pm.
__________________
I've always had more time than money.

www.nfpd.us
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:19 PM
Camaro Zach's Avatar
Camaro Zach Camaro Zach is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alvin Texas
Posts: 586
Default

My 20t air over cylinder came with a spare seal kit but the bag doesn't have a pn on it. If you lived closer I would give you the original cylinder.

With the air over ram you can still pump by hand to fine tune the clamping pressure.

Sent from my iPhone using SFT
__________________
Buggy
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-31-2017, 11:46 PM
LW Hiway's Avatar
LW Hiway LW Hiway is offline
Lord of the Minions
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indian Bayou and Lake Charles, La.
Posts: 20,210
Default

Dub, at the farm I've got three jacks which use an onboard air pump for the other wise hand pump found.

Two of the three are 3 tons for engine lifts and another in 50ton used on my hyd press frame.

Quote:
It seems as if one stroke of the air pump is equal to about one pump of a typical hyd jack etc.
Dub, I checked again and see it's more like a half stroke of the pneumatics over a hand stroke of a hydraulic as far as ram extension goes.
I've never found them to be aggressive more or less than a typical hyd jack. Sure makes life a bit easier, chucka chucka chucka chucka.
__________________
God, if you would grant me one request through Prayer, please help me be the Man my Dog thinks I am. Please.

Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. A dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!

Last edited by LW Hiway; 11-04-2017 at 06:10 PM. Reason: I double checked and found a difference
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-01-2017, 09:16 AM
milomilo's Avatar
milomilo milomilo is online now
Auction Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wheatland, Wyoming
Posts: 12,107
Default

Is the oil you wipe off around the main ram? If so, expect you have a bad seal on the ram. If the oil is around the pressure release screw, you may have a bad seal on it. I have a 20T HF but it has always held pressure so I have never had it apart. I did find that the air pump needs some hydraulic tool oil about twice a year so it does not stick.
__________________
Chris

“In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.” Charles de Gaulle
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:53 AM
dubby's Avatar
dubby dubby is online now
Director: Fish Seduction
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 9,096
Default

Well, I went to HF with a stack of coupons in hand. Bought the air/hyd 20T, a fresh bottle of jack fluid, a 'remnant' air hose, a couple fittings, and the 6" fractional/digital caliper...grabbed a new 4-in-1 screwdriver as my freebie.

Got back to the shop, pulled the oil plug, and filled the existing pump first. Then I clamped it down and left it while I configured the air hose. I measured the distance from the plates up to the cross bar when I walked away. An hour later it was still sitting right where I left it. The leak or oil buildup is around the base where it attaches to the outside cylinder. I looked at the display pumps in HF and almost all of them (including the display air/hyd unit) seemed to display the same 'leak'. It's most evident on the warning label as it soaks the oil up and discolors and the adhesive releases. But I'm also seeing bubbles on the pump end as I run the handle through it's stroke.

I really don't know if it's worth it to keep the $90 air/hyd unit. But, a couple questions if I do. It came with it's own set of springs installed to retract the ram. Do those stay on when set up for the press? I haven't gotten it out of the box yet so it's hard to tell how they're really attached. It looks like the ram end is larger than the little centering hole in the press. Or does it have the little screw-head end on it that'll give enough clearance? Then, do you run it with all 4 springs (two on the press, two on the pump)?
__________________
I've always had more time than money.

www.nfpd.us
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-02-2017, 08:59 AM
dubby's Avatar
dubby dubby is online now
Director: Fish Seduction
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 9,096
Default

Alright, so I just went and found a video that answers most all of my questions. I've already spent the money, right? Might as well do the upgrade. Looks kinda cool and seems plenty slow enough that I won't over do anything.

Yay for a project today! I'd worked myself out of a job...
__________________
I've always had more time than money.

www.nfpd.us
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-02-2017, 09:47 AM
milomilo's Avatar
milomilo milomilo is online now
Auction Addict
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wheatland, Wyoming
Posts: 12,107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubby View Post
Alright, so I just went and found a video that answers most all of my questions. I've already spent the money, right? Might as well do the upgrade. Looks kinda cool and seems plenty slow enough that I won't over do anything.

Yay for a project today! I'd worked myself out of a job...
That is one of the things I like best about mine. You can bump it one one pump at a time if you need to.
__________________
Chris

“In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.” Charles de Gaulle
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-02-2017, 11:47 AM
BukitCase BukitCase is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lost in Oregon
Posts: 928
Default

Dubby, once you've used the air/hydraulic you won't wanna go back, and no need - as Chris mentioned, it's easy to just "blip the throttle" and do one pump at a time, and if it's something you REALLLY need to sneak up on, it's JUST as easy to leave the handle in the hand pump (it doesn't move just 'cause the air is pumping the jack) - That way you can run it up on air, bump it closer, and finish it off with PARTIAL strokes by hand.

One thing I've done on these after finding out the hard way - I bend that wire "bail" out enough to take it OFF - it has a nasty habit of slipping up and LOCKING the pump on, usually just when you DON'T need it to... Steve
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-03-2017, 10:05 AM
dubby's Avatar
dubby dubby is online now
Director: Fish Seduction
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 9,096
Default

I got it installed, and yes I'm glad now that I did. I made a test holster yesterday just to see how it was going to work and not worry about tearing up a real gun. It did well and I really didn't have to do any sneaking. I just kept a careful eye on the foam and when it collapsed to it's 'usual' point I stopped. I tried it with the handle and if anything I had under-pressed. So that's good.

I did lose a little room between the plates and the ram. I don't know that it'll be a big deal but it was a deal. And I definitely noticed that stupid lock on the air trigger. I routed the hose up and over the right side of the press and twisted a couple coils in the hose to hold it at a convenient height. And the bail tried to fall. I suspect it will get removed the next time I'm out there. Not exactly sure what kind of situation a fella would need for such a device.

My press is one of the fully welded frame versions. The video I watched yesterday was of a bolt-together unit. I noticed a couple differences in how the ram was mounted. 1) The ram actually bolted to a plate that was welded to the ram-bar. 2) On the top there was no extra material besides the 'cup' to hold the ram head in place.

On mine the pump just sits on the press bar with nothing there to hold it in place--so I noticed a little twisting and movement as I ran it up and down. At the top, mine has a piece of channel welded on each side of the 'cup'. The air/hyd unit just barely fit and I had to turn the pump ever so slightly to get it in there. Looking at it from the front, it just looks crooked. I doubt that either of these will ever cause a serious issue.

I also noticed in the video that the air/hyd unit came with a spare set of seals--and someone else had mentioned that as well earlier. This one did not. Dangit. I hope it holds up a nice long time so I don't have to worry about it.
__________________
I've always had more time than money.

www.nfpd.us
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-03-2017, 11:02 AM
Ironman's Avatar
Ironman Ironman is offline
Iron Modification Investigator
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Warburg, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 11,677
Default

Dubby, any hydraulic jack I have ever ruined, and caused a leak at the base was because I was jacking with the pad the base sat on being not square with the lift direction. Also if a load was to roll off the jack, such as a vehicle, that'll do it fast.

Basically, as far as I can tell, what happens is the outer can which is the reservoir, gets distorted and the O ring at the base won't seal any more. There is no fix for this as far as I can see. Ether the base casting gets warped or the outer shell does.

I suggest checking the table against the top for square, as a slight bit off, over time may affect the jack.
__________________
Gerry
“After all, no one is stupid enough to prefer war to peace; in peace sons bury their fathers, and in war fathers bury their sons.”
Herodotus

Even duct tape can't fix stupid ... But it can muffle the sound. Attributed to Red Green
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.