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  #1  
Old 03-11-2006, 12:23 PM
pagoda pagoda is offline
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Default stainless is kicking my @$#...

hey, found this site from the hobart site... i own a small furniture / cabinet shop and have been doing a lot of our own metal work over the past year or so. one of the things that is killing me is making base plates for legs and what not. because we work with mostly stainless, drilling of mounting holes (1/4" dia) is getting old. also due to the warping of stainless, we are working with 3/16" thick material keep that to a minimum. we do a fair amount of legs and brackets with 3/8" solid rods so that is why we are making the plates thick. i would rather use 1/8" for the plates, but they tend to go wonky on us.

so....
drilling:
a better way to drill. we have a old small jet DP that runs down to 600 rpm. this is a bit fast yes? what would be a good set up for just drilling these plates? we need to keep it low cost and on a small scale. i was thinking about this dake benchtop or this grizly bench top with a cross slide and then rig up a flood coolant deal. i guess we would also need to look into a drill doctor... what about one of the small mills? would that help?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G7943
http://www.emachinetool.com/new/cata...&ProductID=747



or better yet...
have them outsourced:
i know this would be a smart thing to do, but we do a lot of custom stuff so i am a bit iffy on ordering a big pile of plates from someone with a cnc plasma, laser, water jet ect... anyone care to shoot me a price? take a look at the pdf and see what you think. i was thinking 8 gauge material.
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  #2  
Old 03-11-2006, 12:40 PM
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Pagoda, I'm looking at your sig line, did you send back the EV88 or do you have both the 996 & 88 kama saws ?
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  #3  
Old 03-11-2006, 12:55 PM
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Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is offline
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Okay you ranted a bit but,

you are having 2 problems,

1) drilling 0.25" holes and

2) warping when welding stainless

Correct?

first question is what grade stainless are you running 303/304 or 316 or something else?

For the drilling, you should get M-42 drills, split point 135 degree, uncoated is fine, brands I recommend are Nachi and PTD. Stainless drill well at 50 sfpm with HSS tooling so the 0.25" drill should be run at 764 rpm and feed the drill hard. You need to move through the material before you work harden it. 600 rpm is fine too. For a free machining material I suggest 316L the 'L' is very important!

As far as the welding picture of what you are doing would be helpful. Mainly to see joint geometry.
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:58 PM
david_r david_r is offline
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pagoda,
Welcome to SFT.

Recommended SFPM is 30 to 60 (30x4)/.25" = 480 RPM (60x4)/.25" = 960 RPM.

I think your RPM is fine. I'd hazard a guess that you are not getting down to business with the drill or your drill bits are inferior. With stainless, the second you quit making chips you work harden the material. You need to apply adequate downfeed to insure that the drill doesn't rub the work.
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:49 PM
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More of the same different wording.

Cobalt Drills (M-42) are the choice for stainless.
The cobalt drills have a thicker web so you can feed them harder then HSS drills and a different angle.
They split the point due to the thicker web, makes it start easier.
What they sell at some stores maybe something else.

Carbide drills would work but not for someone without experience. they will chip/shatter without much effort.

Stainless will work-harden around 800 degrees F. That's why you must keep the RPM down less rubbing, more cutting.
If you cant keep a chip going, you need to lower the RPM.

My table top mill has a fine feed crank handle which would give a more consistent down feed, is what you need.
Ease up on the feed just before you break thru or your going to chip the drill.

More cutting Oil will help, NOT lube oil.

Wear a safety shield, most if not all drills can shatter.
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Old 03-11-2006, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWIZ
Carbide drills would work but not for someone without experience. they will chip/shatter without much effort.

...

More cutting Oil will help, NOT lube oil.

Wear a safety shield, most if not all drills can shatter.
Yes yes yes...

Carbide also needs a very ridgid set up. Most drill presses do not have that, worn knee mills aren't much better. Tight mills and CNC's is where you can use them productively

Yes cutting oil, not motor oil or machine oil... I use Castrol's 140 stick wax, it is chlorinated, works well, less mess than oil. Also chlorinated solvents, ie the NON-flamable brakes parts cleaner will do, I use it for tapping all the time.
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  #7  
Old 03-11-2006, 04:22 PM
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LW Hiway LW Hiway is offline
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Quoting Shade,
Quote:
As far as the welding picture of what you are doing would be helpful. Mainly to see joint geometry.


If your not too keen to post the actual pics of actual furniture that your making, which would show how the parts fit and how the welding is processed, PM the respondents individually to protect your product.

You may, be suffering the warpage due to particular problems in the welding itself. Process used etc.

For your drilling of holes, doing and using the type drills and offered parameters of use as suggested by Shade, David R and GWIZ will definitely save on tooling expenditure and will allow you to cut better holes and more of them per bit.

If you find the need to sharpen your own bits, be sure to do your homework as to which bits can be effectively re-sharpened by which system. Consideration must be given to exacting angles, rake, cut centers and burr free edges.

Some of the bit sharpeners are little better than using an open grinding wheel on the bench and doing the sharpening by hand.

edit; just did a simple search for the Drill Doctor line and found:

The DD750X shop model is designed for durability and has the flexibility required to sharpen the largest range of dull or broken bits-including split points and masonry bits. The DD750X also adds increased capacity, sharpening 3/32” to 3/4” bits. Looks to run close to well over 200 with adding extra wheels and assorted goodies.

Good information given you'se guys.
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Last edited by LW Hiway; 03-11-2006 at 04:34 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2006, 04:54 PM
pagoda pagoda is offline
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thanks for all the good info so far!

more info & details:
i have been buying 304 stinless. should i give 316L a try?

yes, i sent the 88 back... sort of the same issue. i ended up killing blades when we cut 3/16 & 1/4 stainless flat bar. taked to enderfield and hall and they recomended going with the bigger saw with coolant. it was a major help! with that big blade and coolant i am doing much better.

drill feed speed: i know about the "no rubbing" issue. i guess it is a maer of finding a good rigid press or mill to do the holes. any recomendations?

some photos:
1/4" brackets with holes. we do alot of this type thing for counters, back rests ect... people love stainless.

some basic tube legs. we do them for tons of projects. sometimes with levelers sometimes round, sometimes tall ect... but they allways need a mounting plate with holes...

again, thanks for the tips!
-ian
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  #9  
Old 03-11-2006, 05:06 PM
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316L is much easier to machine.

I would have some local shops shoot you a price for those. Plasma will be the cheapest, Laser and waterjet cost more.

How are you welding them now Mig or Tig.

I would suggest Pulsed Mig. the overall heat input will be minimized also if you do not have to weld them all around don't. Also build your fixture to the plate sits on a large block of copper or aluminum to act like a heat sink.
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  #10  
Old 03-11-2006, 05:10 PM
pagoda pagoda is offline
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>How are you welding them now Mig or Tig.<

tig. maxstar 150 usualy under 70 amps.

i like the idea of making a big heat sink...

i will try some 316L.
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