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Old 03-23-2017, 12:55 PM
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Default Chain making 3links, added to 7 links and destructive testing

Well. Been at it again..

https://youtu.be/uS0CqaXwNNc

This time on chain making.. I know you guys got to see a vintage one.. Well a few years ago but here is a new one..

I do like the fact that making these videos keeps me forging stuff because otherwise I more than likely wouldn't do much..

I used to only make stuff during a paying job, but not trying to get back into hammer shape this has been most helpful..

Anyhow, as usual.. Good, bad, ugly.. etc, etc..

Shade where you been at.. Figured if anybody would give me guff it'd be you..
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:12 AM
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The nail polish is a nice touch. Why the welding at the end of the link? I would have thought it would be at the longest part of the link?
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Old 03-24-2017, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
The nail polish is a nice touch. Why the welding at the end of the link? I would have thought it would be at the longest part of the link?
The welding of modern chain is carried out with a butt weld on the side of the link usually this is made with a inductions welder.. Much like a bandsaw blade welder and then swaged to shear off the extra material..

A traditionally forged chain the the end of the link is in a tension and compression stress at the same time in use.

If you have ever seen chain that is stressed the sides will elongate and the links themselves become narrower..

Both the elongation of the link and the movement inside would create a tear function at the weld seam if on the side. Literally tearing the welded material apart..

By having the weld at the end of the link you can make it larger and because of the tension and compression at the same time its the side of the link that will fail first..

I plan on making a testing jig at some point so I can test some of the links.. The 50ton press should make it interesting..

I have some modern chain some where that was over stretched and it has locked links.. I'll try to find it and it will show the tension stuff mentioned..

hope this answers your question..
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Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
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Old 03-24-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by allessence View Post

I have some modern chain some where that was over stretched and it has locked links.. I'll try to find it and it will show the tension stuff mentioned..

hope this answers your question..
Yes, it does. I have a chain or two like that where the links are locked. Guess it never dawned on me that was due to over stressed. Thanks for the explanation.
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Old 03-24-2017, 10:50 PM
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I had a buddy that seemed to believe that a chain was not broken in until it could stand up in a corner. I watched him destroy chains almost every time he used them The chain quality is very good because I never saw him actualy cause a chain to break. I have seen a chain break.
About 4 foot of chain left the job site we figured that it knew it would be fired so it just quit. (we never found it in the mud)
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Old 03-24-2017, 11:01 PM
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I like this video a lot because it answered some questions on welding heat perhaps because of better lighting/contrast. I'm colorblind and all these degrees in temp based on subtle color differences are hard to discern. Welding heat based on what I see is incandescent/white-hot. But, not throwing major sparks which would mean your burning up the carbon and killing the steel so to speak. You also blew my mind how close you came on even legs on your initial bend on forming a link. You probably don't even think about it but I know from torch bending stock for projects it ain't easy to consistently nail bends that close.
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Old 03-25-2017, 06:30 AM
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Really enjoyed this as well as the others. Very professional workmanship - delightful to watch.Thanks for posting.

wayne
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Old 03-25-2017, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Yes, it does. I have a chain or two like that where the links are locked. Guess it never dawned on me that was due to over stressed. Thanks for the explanation.
The chain stretch I think is kind of neat.. Well it used to flex... What happened..

Your welcome..

by the way. I love to have the nails all polished up.. Problem is it only last 10 minutes when doing Blacksmithing or Auto repair..

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry lingle View Post
I had a buddy that seemed to believe that a chain was not broken in until it could stand up in a corner. I watched him destroy chains almost every time he used them The chain quality is very good because I never saw him actualy cause a chain to break. I have seen a chain break.
About 4 foot of chain left the job site we figured that it knew it would be fired so it just quit. (we never found it in the mud)
Pretty neat.. What were you guys pulling that you broke a chain? Be interested in where it failed. .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitetrash View Post
I like this video a lot because it answered some questions on welding heat perhaps because of better lighting/contrast. I'm colorblind and all these degrees in temp based on subtle color differences are hard to discern. Welding heat based on what I see is incandescent/white-hot. But, not throwing major sparks which would mean your burning up the carbon and killing the steel so to speak. You also blew my mind how close you came on even legs on your initial bend on forming a link. You probably don't even think about it but I know from torch bending stock for projects it ain't easy to consistently nail bends that close.
Great comment... You may not know this but you also asked a question..

Steel when heated in an oxygen rich environment will throw sparks a lot sooner.. In fact it will throw sparks before welding temperature is actually reached..

IN a neutral heating environment you can actually go over welding heat and not throw sparks.. It will only spark once removed from the fire and reaches the oxygen rich atmosphere..

A carbonizing rich fire (like putting a piece of steel at the top of a fire, covering it with coal, charcoal etc, etc) and then putting air to the fire and making the fire work up to the steel to welding temperature will again throw sparks sooner and won't weld very well..

So, ideally a neutral fire is the best fire type for forge welding..

One problem with a charcoal or coal forge is.. There is not a consistent air flow... IE the air is not regulated to flow a certain amount as the fuel is consumed at a certain amount thus regulating the fire to stoichiometric or Neutral or AFR (air to fuel ratio). Its one of the reasons a lot of people have a hard time mastering a solid fuel forge.. IE the constant changing of shape, size, depth, etc, etc..


I'm making it sound more complicated than it is from a beginner stand point since I dig the technical stuff which most people never acknowledge, but it can be helpful to know these things are taking place..

FYI.. A solid fuel forge will change color of the flame as welding temperature is being reached..

FYI.. If you can't tell that the shade/tint of color has changed you can use a welding poker to feel the surface of the metal and the welding poker will stick to the surface of the metal..

A few sparks coming of the material is ok.. A36 will need a higher temperature to weld vs 1018 though it has more carbon..


Chain is an excellent item to make if you want to practice forge welding since the weld scarfs are held in position while you are welding.. No extra hands needed.

And now you know how to test the chain link you make to see if the forge weld you did is good..



Hope this helps..

Quote:
Originally Posted by baldy347 View Post
Really enjoyed this as well as the others. Very professional workmanship - delightful to watch.Thanks for posting.

wayne
Thanks Wayne.. I am hoping to have a whole bunch posted before to long..

Gotta keep you guys thinking about ways you can play..
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_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.

Last edited by allessence; 03-25-2017 at 04:05 PM.
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  #9  
Old 03-25-2017, 06:23 PM
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milomilo milomilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allessence View Post
The chain stretch I think is kind of neat.. Well it used to flex... What happened..

Your welcome..

by the way. I love to have the nails all polished up.. Problem is it only last 10 minutes when doing Blacksmithing or Auto repair..



Pretty neat.. What were you guys pulling that you broke a chain? Be interested in where it failed. .



Great comment... You may not know this but you also asked a question..

Steel when heated in an oxygen rich environment will throw sparks a lot sooner.. In fact it will throw sparks before welding temperature is actually reached..

IN a neutral heating environment you can actually go over welding heat and not throw sparks.. It will only spark once removed from the fire and reaches the oxygen rich atmosphere..

A carbonizing rich fire (like putting a piece of steel at the top of a fire, covering it with coal, charcoal etc, etc) and then putting air to the fire and making the fire work up to the steel to welding temperature will again throw sparks sooner and won't weld very well..

So, ideally a neutral fire is the best fire type for forge welding..

One problem with a charcoal or coal forge is.. There is not a consistent air flow... IE the air is not regulated to flow a certain amount as the fuel is consumed at a certain amount thus regulating the fire to stoichiometric or Neutral or AFR (air to fuel ratio). Its one of the reasons a lot of people have a hard time mastering a solid fuel forge.. IE the constant changing of shape, size, depth, etc, etc..


I'm making it sound more complicated than it is from a beginner stand point since I dig the technical stuff which most people never acknowledge, but it can be helpful to know these things are taking place..

FYI.. A solid fuel forge will change color of the flame as welding temperature is being reached..

FYI.. If you can't tell that the shade/tint of color has changed you can use a welding poker to feel the surface of the metal and the welding poker will stick to the surface of the metal..

A few sparks coming of the material is ok.. A36 will need a higher temperature to weld vs 1018 though it has more carbon..


Chain is an excellent item to make if you want to practice forge welding since the weld scarfs are held in position while you are welding.. No extra hands needed.

And now you know how to test the chain link you make to see if the forge weld you did is good..



Hope this helps..



Thanks Wayne.. I am hoping to have a whole bunch posted before to long..

Gotta keep you guys thinking about ways you can play..
How do you fix an over stressed chain you mentioned earlier? Squeeze each link from the end to spread it open a bit?
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  #10  
Old 03-25-2017, 06:34 PM
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allessence allessence is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
How do you fix an over stressed chain you mentioned earlier? Squeeze each link from the end to spread it open a bit?
Well a few stiff drinks, Maybe a shoulder rub or you can even try to massage the ears.. Great stress reducers..

If you have an old hand made chain you want to rehab then just hit the end of the chain like in the testing showed in the video. Just don't flatten as much.. You can also do this with company made chain but it's probably not time efficient..

Ideally there is a cost to longevity ratio.. If someone is killing chain that often it might be worth spending a little more and buying a higher quality, higher load chain..
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Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
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