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  #11  
Old 04-01-2017, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by allessence View Post
Excellent info Matt...

It's pretty funny.. I was very surprised by the whole thing.. I figured it would have been an O1 or a W1 type of steel..

I've seen air hardening steel in springs before in mystery steel had some 1/4" and 3/16.. Sadly I could have taken as many as i wanted and only grabbed like 10... There must have been 500 there.. Storage has always been a problem.. What do you to with 500 lanky springs 2-3ft long 10-12" in diameter with no easy way to straighten them???

I usually do a very slow cool on the side of the forge fire, last forge heat.. Just lay it on the side of the forge (coal vs gas).. and in just a few minutes its ready even with O1..

My experience with Air hardening steels in the last few years has grown.. I bought a bar of HSS for some dies for Betzy but then switched over to ball bearing guides so I have this stuff hanging around.. I had read about forging it way back so took some of that knowledge and finally applied it though it is funny stuff to work because of the forging temps..

Do you like O1?

I have never been a fan of oil hardening anything but springs because I hate all the clean up.. I used Automatic trans fluid for awhile as this left a pretty scale free surface vs motor oil but I would water harden just about everything in water.. In fact water was/is my go to.. Or at least it used to be. I miss the days when it was that simple..

It was kind of neat once i had it cleaned, filed and ready for hardening. I just put it spine down in the forge and because the blade is pretty thin 2/3rds of the edge reached temps in short order and once pulled out of the fire it was hardened as soon as it was a very dull red in shade..

Really without a full work up of the material " heat treating multi samples, hardness tests, edge retention tests. break tests.. etc, etc at different heat temps and temper cycles).. It wouldnt be a good sales item and unless all the testing is done I would never sell it.. I would give it away though as a box cutter or skinner if the person hunts..

it is sharp as the dickens and I only did a quick sharpen on the medium diamond stone.. A little time for the new owner might prove excellent..

I woudn't recommend using it as a screw drive though..

I find O1 to be a little stiff under the hammer compared to other steels and have used a lot more of it for stock removal than for forging. If you look at the specs on it, it is a somewhat improved version of 1095. Deeper hardening and a few other nice perks. As with any steel, you have to do your experimenting on heat treat and temper to get the most out of it but if you do the work it makes a hell of a blade.

I have found I can control scale more if I put my blade inside a piece of pipe when I am heating it to quench, but I am using a gas forge and it is harder to get a reducing flame than it is for you using coal I would think. I also have a 72 inch belt grinder that I much more adept with than a hammer so I take more material off after heat treat than you

I bought some new 5160 stock from a knife making supply and made about a half dozen knives with it and have found that it's tough and easy to sharpen but doesn't get quite as hard as I would like. I think it needs a much faster oil than the used motor oil I have been playing with. Its an interesting steel because it does hold an edge pretty well even when its not screaming hard. It is more fun to hammer on than O1 though.

I also have a stack of leaf springs from a 90 something jeep cherokee that I have made a few blades from. I haven't had it analyzed but I would say that it definitely isn't 5160, something close but not the same. It really makes a nice blade but I have found that old leaf springs can have a lot of stress cracks hiding in them that makes me leery of using them for anything important.

Basically I think the main thing if you want to make knives, is find a steel you like to work with and then use it consistently enough to learn its quirks. Using mystery steel is entertaining but it's always a gamble, and I don't like to gamble very much.
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
I find O1 to be a little stiff under the hammer compared to other steels and have used a lot more of it for stock removal than for forging. If you look at the specs on it, it is a somewhat improved version of 1095. Deeper hardening and a few other nice perks. As with any steel, you have to do your experimenting on heat treat and temper to get the most out of it but if you do the work it makes a hell of a blade.

I have found I can control scale more if I put my blade inside a piece of pipe when I am heating it to quench, but I am using a gas forge and it is harder to get a reducing flame than it is for you using coal I would think. I also have a 72 inch belt grinder that I much more adept with than a hammer so I take more material off after heat treat than you

I bought some new 5160 stock from a knife making supply and made about a half dozen knives with it and have found that it's tough and easy to sharpen but doesn't get quite as hard as I would like. I think it needs a much faster oil than the used motor oil I have been playing with. Its an interesting steel because it does hold an edge pretty well even when its not screaming hard. It is more fun to hammer on than O1 though.

I also have a stack of leaf springs from a 90 something jeep cherokee that I have made a few blades from. I haven't had it analyzed but I would say that it definitely isn't 5160, something close but not the same. It really makes a nice blade but I have found that old leaf springs can have a lot of stress cracks hiding in them that makes me leery of using them for anything important.

Basically I think the main thing if you want to make knives, is find a steel you like to work with and then use it consistently enough to learn its quirks. Using mystery steel is entertaining but it's always a gamble, and I don't like to gamble very much.
Luckily years ago when I was really into all the researching, reading, experimenting, training, teaching, just refining everything I had read and tried to put it into practice the timing was priceless..

I lived at home, and any money I could come up with was spent on coal.. Luckily m Grandmother would cart me around to the coal yard and the guys at the place would let me sift the coal so I would only end up with chunks with no dust..

I would work and test anything I could find as I couldn't afford any new stuff and there were junk yards abound as there was still industry in the area.

I ended up with some really weird stuff.. one wouldn't rust but it wasn't stainless or titanium. It made super nice punches..

Anyhow I had worked so much mystery metal that it started to just be the norm that before I made anything important or with a product that needed certain attributes It would get tested..

Once I started to offer items for sale on a regular basis is When I could start to afford new mild steel and I'd go buy a bar or 2 at a time and eventually started carrying normally used sizes in stock..

I would of course still scrounge for Tool steels as they were still out of my price range..

The hardies you guys see in the videos were made from scrap as was all the hardie tools.. The cold hardie and the hot hardie now are 30 years old.. Most of the tongs are 30+ years old.. The 2lbs cross german cross peen is nearly 40 years old.

Anyhow, Now I am so out of shape and the mind just isn't as sharp as it was when I was smithing for 10-12hrs a day just figuring stuff out and while I still have the knowledge its archaic by todays standards though still applicable.. Just not taught..

I would agree that once you find a steel you like and can afford go for it..

It makes things simpler and you can predict how it will respond and can refine both heat treat and temper for a given item..

Perfectly said Matt..
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2017, 11:22 AM
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I still enjoy playing with the scrounged materials, but I usually reserve it for days when I am just in the shop to be in the shop.
If I have a specific item I plan to make, or I am making something for somebody else I like to know what I'm starting with.

I got lucky right after I built my first forge and I ordered 4ft of 5/8" O1 drill rod to experiment with, as I'd been buying bar stock for stock removal and knew the heat treat pretty well. Somehow they sent me 4 bars, for a total of 16ft instead. When I contacted them about it, they said to just keep it. So I got to play with a lot of O1 for free. It makes pretty good center punches and chisels too
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Old 04-01-2017, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Shade View Post
I still enjoy playing with the scrounged materials, but I usually reserve it for days when I am just in the shop to be in the shop.
If I have a specific item I plan to make, or I am making something for somebody else I like to know what I'm starting with.

I got lucky right after I built my first forge and I ordered 4ft of 5/8" O1 drill rod to experiment with, as I'd been buying bar stock for stock removal and knew the heat treat pretty well. Somehow they sent me 4 bars, for a total of 16ft instead. When I contacted them about it, they said to just keep it. So I got to play with a lot of O1 for free. It makes pretty good center punches and chisels too
Nice.. Have you made any punches and such for leather work?

I was just editing the video and could see where i made the mistake.. I left the newly forged piece on the anvil instead of the side of the fire because I was filming..

The shop even on the best of days will only reach 50F but the ice in the tub refuses to melt on days unless it's 50F out.. Which the day of the knife the ice never melted.. So I'd say it was maybe 30F in the trailer so the anvil must have been cold enough and enough of a heat sync to expedite hardening..
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If I defend myself I am attacked.

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  #15  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by allessence View Post
What about using one vs 1 and two vs 2 in a sentence.. I vaguely remember there was a rule about that as well..
I think Lew made a good suggestion, about not using numerals to refer to people specifically although that breaks down when you get to large numbers of them.
One thing I prefer, and this may be "just me", is to separate the use of written numbers & numerals when they follow each other in a string. For instance, "there are twelve 2.25 inch parts on each side" is better because writing "there are 12 2.25 inch parts" can cause confusion.

However, we're talking about captions in a video here, not a term paper. I think you have some space considerations; short, clear captions usually are better, especially when you're stating physical dimensions of the work pieces, etc.
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2017, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by allessence View Post
Nice.. Have you made any punches and such for leather work?

I was just editing the video and could see where i made the mistake.. I left the newly forged piece on the anvil instead of the side of the fire because I was filming..

The shop even on the best of days will only reach 50F but the ice in the tub refuses to melt on days unless it's 50F out.. Which the day of the knife the ice never melted.. So I'd say it was maybe 30F in the trailer so the anvil must have been cold enough and enough of a heat sync to expedite hardening..
No leather punches so far. I toyed with the idea as some of the leather tools get pretty expensive for not really being that complicated but those really need to be plated or stainless, or they can leave black marks on the leather due to it being slightly damp when you tool it.

It's always hard to work when you're trying to run a camera. I haven't messed with video yet but I was taking progress pics of a photo album the other day and then realized I was putting dye on before I had oiled it.
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Old 04-01-2017, 01:02 PM
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For instance, "there are twelve 2.25 inch parts on each side" is better because writing "there are 12 2.25 inch parts" can cause confusion..
That is a very good point and I wish it could be conveyed to a lot of people that post on various boards. :-)
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:13 PM
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That is a very good point and I wish it could be conveyed to a lot of people that post on various boards. :-)
...lew...
... people WHO post is preferred. I don't pay much attention to them that post over dere.
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Old 04-01-2017, 02:22 PM
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Jen, nice skinner. Down here we've kept things a bit longer on the handle and a nice sweep of the blade for skinners. Of course one of the best and quickest skinners I've ever watched was a Grandfather that used a typical butcher knife from the hardware store and wielded it with a sureness only years of practice would afford.

Quote:
leather tools get pretty expensive for not really being that complicated but those really need to be plated or stainless, or they can leave black marks on the leather due to it being slightly damp when you tool it.
I was at a crafters booth show in laf several years back and was standing with a friend who was watching an older gent just manipulate his leather to no end. He was fast, but every movement his hands and fingers made were sure and dedicated to the task.

One thing I noticed was his wealth of tooling that was not coated or s/s, just plain black iron.

Someone in attendance mentioned the fact that stains would be left after the work had been finished, saying this out loud.

The craftsman mentioned just as loudly, "those stains are my signatures", and kept right on working.

I've made most of what I use for leather in both s/s and iron rod etc and personally just do not worry enough about this one way or the other. But I do understand why some would.

It seems that most of the leather work I get asked to add with a knife, a rifle or pistol all want the distressed aged look like most of mine show. Not so much from my trying, but more of my basic abilities and how things will eventually end up.

Before I get too darn long winded, I'd be most proud to mention here and now, we as a group of nerdowells mostly have one wicked base of self taught knowledge concerning all of the different topics we can cover in a years time of posting. Even if your work is from years of reading material, asking opinions of others and then trying things yourself for results. That to me is 'self taught'. So...........though it might not be per definitions of some.
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Old 04-01-2017, 06:00 PM
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If posting a certain quantity I do the (12) 1/4"X5/8X20 or the like..

Cutter, You really have raised my game.. I have always been a lazy writer though I do love a great story and do my best to " transfer what I am thinking, and what I am demonstrating to the mass or group"..

It can be a real chore and I find I end up writing for ever to make things as clear as possible.. I guess that why I like the videos.. The picture shows a thousand words and with just a little caption it nearly becomes self explanatory.. Or at least that is my hope..

Ideally this little skinner should have a little larger blade.. Would have been the best to have a 3" blade on it.. But You guys have to remember While I used to make stuff like this all the time.. It's been 12 years since i spent any real time at the forge and before that it was around 3 years the last knife I made.. I did do a few blades at demos but I never finished them..

So overall I'm delighted and I hope the new owner is delighted also..

LW Highway: Amen to that.. You guys are probably the most well rounded and knowledgeable people about so many different things..
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Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
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