Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Blacksmithing & Forming

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-25-2017, 05:14 AM
LW Hiway's Avatar
LW Hiway LW Hiway is offline
Lord of the Minions
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indian Bayou and Lake Charles, La.
Posts: 20,218
Default Viking Tool Steel? Suppliers?

I'm searching for the needs of an anvil that was abused by the kids of an Uncle, chipped face and a broken foot from miss-use and a fall of 5' out of a loader bucket to a concrete floor in his old shop.

It has returned to me and while I'm glad to have it as it was one of my Grandfathers anvils, I've got it in my mind that I'm going to reface it by hammer welding an new full face to the original body with something like Viking tool steel. I'm not sure as to what elements of the steel would be best suited, but I'm looking

I've thought of rod welding it in place with a gap of 3/8" underneath the tool steel on top of the anvils face using Rail Spec rod I've used in the past with parts added to a rail anvil build with good/great success. Using a strip of steel f/b slotted and welded fully for the gap hold.

I've got a smidge of background with this process, but would still like to get inputs from our membership on the subject.

The last resort I have in mind would be to preheat and full weld the face with hardsurfacing rod and grinding to a suitable thickness and usable face, but I have no desire to do that much grinding on that much area.
__________________
God, if you would grant me one request through Prayer, please help me be the Man my Dog thinks I am. Please.

Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. A dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-04-2017, 08:25 AM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,192
Default

Ok,

So initially as I was reading your info and you wrote "going to weld on a whole new face".. I smiled and said to myself.. Dang, way to go with the forging of a new face on that anvil.. ..

Then I got the stick or arc welding part..

As you and I know.. Serviceable means so many things to so many different people..

I am a huge fan of a proper fix.. How much of the face is chipped out/off?

If it is to great to pull the corners up and out with a forging fix/redress vs hardfacing would be the next step.. If the face is just about completely missing I'd be tempted to grind back all the face and bevel it down and then do a complete arc weld back up of a new face unless I had a large enough forge to heat both up to welding temps.

If all goes well in the new shop.. I will be setting up an anvil repairing forge with the ability to hold the anvil on a crane to do face repairs and quenching..


. 4140 1/2" to 3/4" would work super nice, do a full re harden and then temper the corners back..

The only problem with this is: if you don't have a good weld it will crack along the weld to 4140 line as they shrink at different rates on the quench..

Or look into some 1070 or 1085 in plate and weld this on..

What a lot of people don't realize is a lot of the early anvils faces were lower quality steels and even once they moved to Crucible steels even the top namers were having problems with a proper weld on larger anvils.. It's the reason Hay Budden went to a 2 piece design as did everyone else still forging anvils.. Well except for a few American makers..

A lot of the cast iron with steel faced anvils have pretty thin faces.. This kept the stresses from running out of control and getting the faces peeling off..
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-04-2017, 08:28 AM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,192
Default

From everything I have seen over the last few years.. It really looks to me like the Germans had the large anvil and steel face thing worked out even early on..

Those guys seemed to find the right combination so they could produce very large anvils with a durable face and corners..
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:15 PM
LW Hiway's Avatar
LW Hiway LW Hiway is offline
Lord of the Minions
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indian Bayou and Lake Charles, La.
Posts: 20,218
Default

Quote:
Rail Spec rod
The one rod/filler material I've used with the most success for multi-layered steels are with the spec rod I mentioned. It allows the different layers of hardness found in RR rail to be fused all through well.

Should I get a nice setup for grinding a face after hard surfacing, I might give that another go in the future. For now, the use of a 7" grinder is just not worth the time and effort to remove that material to get a semi-flat face.

In the past I've made fires large enough for iron wheel faces of 5' for a wagon restoration. I worked on the wheels only and by the end of that first work learned bunches about large metal heats.

I've got a 500 pounder that needs a new face and will toss a coin as to what direction I want to go with.

I've also got materials together to build something between a 350 to 450 pound German style anvil. Had most of the parts cut for a few years now, just waiting for more shop time and less aircraft work to make it happen.

Quote:
I am a huge fan of a proper fix.. How much of the face is chipped out/off?
Worst I've ever seen on a face. Looks like they used a pneumatic concrete chipper for street use on this anvils face. I've never seen chips and divets 1/4" deep and a good 3/8"+ better in sway of the face.

I've hammer welded faces a time or two(by myself with success), using a large coal trough longer than wide and large enough to heat both at the same time with the use of two large propane rosebuds on a over head trolley to pull and push to even the heat out on the sides while heating up the anvil. As well, I've welded another slab of material after having the original face ground flat and flush and then made the face usable for a hammers hit for working.

There's more than one way to repair an anvil and for what it's worth, you cannot tell the difference between the use of one to the other unless I tell them what/how it was done.
__________________
God, if you would grant me one request through Prayer, please help me be the Man my Dog thinks I am. Please.

Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. A dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!

Last edited by LW Hiway; 12-09-2017 at 12:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:27 PM
LW Hiway's Avatar
LW Hiway LW Hiway is offline
Lord of the Minions
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indian Bayou and Lake Charles, La.
Posts: 20,218
Default

Quote:
It really looks to me like the Germans had the large anvil and steel face thing worked out even early on..
The two I have in the shop bear that truth out very well.

I have a rigging setup for dropping into and pulling out of the fire a massive weight like an anvil. It also has a rotisserie to rotate along it's length and ease of movement to a large hammer stump with a 2" piece of steel for grounding for beating work.

All of this thing allows me to easily place into the fire, take out, place on the stump for beating as well as for the quenching's. I never have another warm body around willing to heft that much weight or heat. So, being able to do it alone is the way for me.
__________________
God, if you would grant me one request through Prayer, please help me be the Man my Dog thinks I am. Please.

Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. A dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!

Last edited by LW Hiway; 12-09-2017 at 12:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.