Shop Floor Talk  

Go Back   Shop Floor Talk > Welding and Metalworking Forums > Blacksmithing & Forming

SFT Search:   
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:32 AM
Shade Tree Welder's Avatar
Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is online now
Grumpy Bastard
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kankakee County, IL
Posts: 18,121
Default Propylene: Foundry and Forge

The Spawn of Shade, Matt, has been working on a foundry this summer and
now is interested in building a forge. So we were using some old LP gas I
have laying around. We use a lot of LP and the small cylinders get too cold
and we loose pressure so going with Propylene and a large cylinder will solve
some of those issues. Hotter burning gas and better supply pressures.

Do any of you Blacksmith guys use Propylene (Propene) for fuel gas in your
forges or foundries? What is your experience?

I picked up a 105# cylinder yesterday.
__________________
Shade

"Prepare to defend yourselves."
-- Sergeant Major Basil L. Plumley, Ia Drang Valley
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-06-2017, 12:34 PM
toprecycler's Avatar
toprecycler toprecycler is online now
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Petoskey, Michigan
Posts: 2,733
Default

You could always do what a scrapper up here did on his aluminum furnace. He would put a couple weed burners on the propane tank to help with gas evaporation. Interesting to see burn marks on the big propane tanks.


Sent from my iPhone using ShopFloorTalk mobile app
__________________
Brian

You don't know what you don't know.

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-06-2017, 12:49 PM
digger doug's Avatar
digger doug digger doug is offline
Not to be used as a Flotation Device
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NW Pa
Posts: 9,813
Default

Interestingah !

Having never the need, I just now read the Wikipedia article on it.

So it's basically "de-hydrogenated" propane ?

And you still store it under pressure as a gas ? Much like propane ?

But how does it fix the freezing up with large pressure drop problem ?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-06-2017, 01:22 PM
Shade Tree Welder's Avatar
Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is online now
Grumpy Bastard
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kankakee County, IL
Posts: 18,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by toprecycler View Post
You could always do what a scrapper up here did on his aluminum furnace. He would put a couple weed burners on the propane tank to help with gas evaporation. Interesting to see burn marks on the big propane tanks.
Yeah, I have no desire to win a Darwin Award.
__________________
Shade

"Prepare to defend yourselves."
-- Sergeant Major Basil L. Plumley, Ia Drang Valley
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-06-2017, 01:34 PM
Shade Tree Welder's Avatar
Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is online now
Grumpy Bastard
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kankakee County, IL
Posts: 18,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
Interestingah !

Having never the need, I just now read the Wikipedia article on it.

So it's basically "de-hydrogenated" propane ?

And you still store it under pressure as a gas ? Much like propane ?

But how does it fix the freezing up with large pressure drop problem ?
Propane is C3H8
Propene is C3H6 (aka propylene)
Propyne is C2H4 (but has the same issues as acetylene aka as Ethyne)

There are 2 benefits from going with propylene that aid in solving "freeze up"
issues. Simply the first is it is a 105 lb. tank with a much greater thermal
mass. A 100 lb. LP tank would go a long way to solving the same issue. But
also Propylene carries almost the same energy as acetylene so I will be using
less gas for the same BTU output so, less gas means it will take longer to cool
the tank to the point of "freeze up". Technically the liquefied gas in the tank
never freezes in either case but the temperature get low enough that the
boiling of the gas off the liquid phase is so slow that it cannot keep up with
demand. Also the price I get from my LWS (who takes damn good care of
me) cannot be beat. And they stock Propylene in 105 lb. tanks and not LP in
100 lb. tanks.

Note: The really energy in is breaking Carbon-Carbon (C-C) bonds when
burning fossil fuels. Methane is the worse for energy production and coal
being the best. Acetylene even though it only has 2 carbon atoms has 3 C-C
bonds. Propylene has 3 carbon atoms and 3 C-C bonds.
__________________
Shade

"Prepare to defend yourselves."
-- Sergeant Major Basil L. Plumley, Ia Drang Valley
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-06-2017, 06:12 PM
Walker's Avatar
Walker Walker is offline
Standard of Excellence
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Cave Creek AZ
Posts: 3,984
Default

Shade, I have a Mapp/Propylene Victor cutting torch tip NIB if you want it. I use Acetylene for my torch and propane for my forge and have no plans to change. I think it was a $40 tip that was mis shipped to me. Let me know if you want it.
__________________
Walker
Chief slag chipper and floor sweeper, Ironwood Artistic
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:43 PM
Shade Tree Welder's Avatar
Shade Tree Welder Shade Tree Welder is online now
Grumpy Bastard
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kankakee County, IL
Posts: 18,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
Shade, I have a Mapp/Propylene Victor cutting torch tip NIB if you want it. I use Acetylene for my torch and propane for my forge and have no plans to change. I think it was a $40 tip that was mis shipped to me. Let me know if you want it.
Thanks for the offer!! But my torches are all Smith, so it wont do me any good.
__________________
Shade

"Prepare to defend yourselves."
-- Sergeant Major Basil L. Plumley, Ia Drang Valley
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:58 PM
LW Hiway's Avatar
LW Hiway LW Hiway is offline
Lord of the Minions
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indian Bayou and Lake Charles, La.
Posts: 20,218
Default

Quote:
Do any of you Blacksmith guys use Propylene (Propene) for fuel gas in your
forges or foundries? What is your experience?
I've never ever used it or been involved with a shop that did. Seems besides Acety I might have used Mapp two or three times for that fact.

I do use LP for my forges a few heating tips/rosebuds and with respect to loss of pressure and cold, I can heat my bottles either by hot water, continuously hot, or a heated enclosure for my 300 gal tank outside.

I've seen one bloke having a coil of 1/2" copper pipe/tubing that would cover the small bottles from top to bottom and run hot water through this to keep pressures workable. He'd turn the water on drop the bottle inside the coils and cover with a blanket to warm his bottles while in use. Worked well.
__________________
God, if you would grant me one request through Prayer, please help me be the Man my Dog thinks I am. Please.

Quoting "The Hunt". "A man will walk into hell with both eyes and arms wide open. A dog will know better."

I never thought I'd live long enough to become a grumpy old bastard. Here I am, killing it!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-10-2017, 09:17 AM
Brian C.'s Avatar
Brian C. Brian C. is offline
Director of Security
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waverly, OH
Posts: 2,816
Default

I saw a factory rep do a weekend propylene demo at Quad State one year. Cut like a champ. Other than that I have no info.

To keep my small propane tanks from freezing up, I clamp them down in a big galvanized wash tub of hot water. Works great.
__________________
"Getting old aint for sissies"

Admit nothing, deny everything, demand proof

Millermatic 211
Harris oxy/act.
2 propane forges
147 lb. Peter Wright anvil
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-10-2017, 05:12 PM
allessence's Avatar
allessence allessence is offline
Gadget Girl
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: MA, 01543
Posts: 6,192
Default

from what I understand just switch to a larger capacity tank will help with freezing..

The polypropane is more expensive and is one of the reasons I don't know of anybody using it..

Again, I like to use coal for most part except with production oriented work..
__________________
_________________
Jennifer

If I defend myself I am attacked.

My meaningless thoughts are showing me a meaningless world.

My attack thoughts are attacking my invulnerability.

I'd like to think of something smart, but I don't want to hurt myself.

My google+ page

DoALL 36"
Another Johnson model J Project
Lathe? Maybe..... 1958 SBL 13"
Yeti Esseti Aka running welder on 3phase.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Web Search:

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.